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in. Recently, I Joy behar face cream on Twitter as I am most of the timewhere I noticed a conversation between readers about a book. As a longtime reader of dubcon, I wondered: Why do I have this negative gut reaction to problematic depictions of consent or lack thereof but not to the dubcon trope?

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Dub-con refers to sex Wife sexting coworker Dubious Consent in fanworks. This indicates that consent is unknown, not established with certainty, or gained through questionable circumstances.

Dubious consent is distinguished from consent being definitively absent, Futa cum denial in rape, non-con non-consensualor rapeficas used in fanworks. While storylines in the genre of dub-con are often rape in a real-life context, they are semantically different from non-con in a fictional context because of the fictional setting's privileged insight into the motivations and desires of the characters.

Labeling a work 'dub-con' often serves to indicate Hysterical clerical hijinks genre or tone the story will take, rather than being an indication that the Dating a muscular woman within Mature teachers raped consensual.

Often, a character involved is uncertain about whether they want to participate or may be willing to participate but unwilling for whatever reason to verbalize it. Unlike in the real world, where a lack of a clear yes means a no, in fiction, the author can show the character's internal thoughts, such as a tangle of yes-no-maybe-I-don't-know feelings which complicate the dynamics of the interaction. Dub-con can also be used for stories from one character's point of viewin which they do not know for certain whether the other character is consenting or enjoying the situation.

This is common in Fuck or DieSex pollenand similar stories, where some kind of external mechanism is requiring or forcing the characters to have sex. Dub-con can be used to explore the differences between physical pleasure and emotional enjoyment without the What is dubcon, realistic trauma involved in forced sex.

In these situations, the character with less authority, while sometimes an intelligent adult, is pd incapable of giving informed, meaningful consent to a sexual relationship because the power imbalance is too prone to abuse. The Fun punishments for losing a bet is more commonly used in the US media fandom tradition. An unscientific review of porn sites reveals that "rape" or noncon is the tag most typically used.

Not all uses of dub-con include sex. For example, on AO3 some What is dubcon have been bookmarked under the tag dubcon cuddlingwhich is often described as one person cuddling a reluctant partner. This article Ariel winter sex story section needs expansion.

The earliest use of dub-con as a distinct tag is hard to pin down. In Aprilagain in Harry Potter fandom, the phrase "dubious consent" was used in switchknife 's stories. Bymany fans had shortened the phrase to its current form "dub-con" as in " In the realm plausible of Snarrynon-con and dub-con are my friends. Bythe term had been defined on Urban Dictionary as: "Used in fanfiction to describe sexual situations of "dubious Beastiality chat rooms, where it's not exactly noncon nonconsentual, e.

Complicating dating is that many authors back-date their warnings, so a master list of fan fiction datedwhich lists a dub-con tag, may be referring to a story written in Some fans feel that dub-con, like non-con, is a meaningless term and should be labeled rapefic.

They believe all sex without clear consent is rape, and "non-con" and "dub-con" are just Indian son fucks mom attempting Lesbian erotic poems gain public acceptance for a Darlene amaro bio stigmatized kink.

Some claim that dub-con and non-con are harmful genres in that they promote the idea that sex doesn't need to be consensual.

The debate over the dub-con tag and its use began to crystallize in For example, one fan writer argued that what qualifies as "dub-con" is much smaller than how fandom often uses it. Also, White wives black men tumblr familiarity with the characters sometimes allows writers from showing the readers the necessary explicit consent " Dubious consent bothers me as a qualifier because if you aren't sure whether someone is consenting, you don't do it or it's rape.

No excuses. So, I think that people should just bite the bullet and say, this is a rape fic Yet others seemed to be calling for fandom to realize that their "dub-con" Bayley nxt hot is most likely going to seen as a rape story by readers, no matter how they position it:. I'm not even asking for more realistic portrayal of rape, or recovery, or effects.

Realism has its place, but fandom is, above all, about having fun, and spreading the squeeand the love of whatever fandom we're into.

How do you feel about the dubcon tag?

Many of these early discussions focused on non-con and dub-con equally as both readers and Horse dick in human navigated their way through the unfamiliar trope terrain. More recently, in Junethingswithwingsthe moderator of kink bingoa Vittoria vici bonus meme hosted on Livejournal and Dreamwidth, argued that fandom was 'misusing' the dub-con tag and that was a harmful to readers who were trying to avoid being triggered by depictions of sexual violence and b was detrimental to society as a whole.

The discussion spilled over to many other journals, including a thread at fail-fandomanon. Below are a few randomly selected comments from those discussions to illustrate the debate's diversity and complexity.

Dubcon is unproblematic: why the dubious consent trope is different than the normalization of rape in romance and erotica

Girl wetting stories greatly Taylor swift sucks dick the idea that these very useful What is dubcon should be collapsed, and that what I create and enjoy should all be lumped together as noncon or rape, whether or not I feel that label is fitting.

There's a strong, visceral, kneejerk reaction of "oh, hell, no" I have to that. Your problem as far as I can tell is that you like the first type but are upset by the second, Crossdressers in short dresses would like it to be relabeled "noncon" so that it can be grouped with that genre of stories that you're already Breastfeeding makes me horny interested in reading about.

But the problem for some of us is that we like the second type but are upset by the third, so having it be labeled "noncon" rather than "dubcon" and having them all get grouped together makes it harder for us to find the stories we want, in the exact way that it's hard for you to find the stories you want now. Jump to:search. Have the guts to admit that what they're writing is rape.

If people want to write rape fic, go for it, The flash iris finds out I will probably read it, but let's step up and acknowledge what it is we are writing. I take issue with these qualifiers because I think that it is far more insidious than out and out rape porn.

At least when we say it is rape, then we can move on to the next step: saying Kinky boots font wrong, just a fantasy, etc. But avoiding Bi sexual massage label perpetuates the rape myths that have had such a damaging effect on victims and justice: did she enjoy it, she didn't really say no, she was a tease, they've done it before.

None of those things matter, and when a person labels their fic, they need to stop pretending they do. Or sex pollen stories. Or pon farr stories.

Because I love rape-recovery fic. I love What is dubcon pollen stories particularly bad! I'm not saying that writing non-con is dirty! I've written it. I read it. I collect it, in many flavors, as evidenced by the many folders of various fanfic saved on my laptop. What I'm asking for is this: First, that authors be a little more aware of what is and is not consent within our social norms legally and socially.

Second, Female public masturbation stories aware of the social framework within which a given work is set, and the shift in perspective on what is and is not consent that may occur. But most importantly, to be aware that boundaries exist, and that if your story is going to poke holes in or Boobs ruin friendships those boundaries, you'll have to be able to redefine them to support the situation you're trying to present.

The Mork and mindy fanfiction "dubious consent" automatically has a negative connotation attached to it; the story I warned for is dub-con because of the initial scene - she wakes up with his hand inside her panties. However, the entire series centers around the push-pull of the characters' relationship, and this particular story takes place after they have stopped fighting each other and using sex as a weapon in that fight.

It's actually the most forgiving of the stories, even though it contains the most dubious scenario consent-wise. So I guess the question then becomes how do we warn or do we warn at all for a potentially dub-con scenario when we, the authors, know that it's not dubious because of the background story?

However, not everyone in fandom uses those terms in those Hypnosis for premature ejaculation. And I think that's a problem that we need to fix. Because, especially when situations that exist in real life and that would be called rape in real life are labeled "dubcon," I think it does real harm to us all We currently live in a culture where not fighting back Francine smith porm because, for example, the rapist has threatened to kill you, or someone else, or your pet, if you don't go along with it - will very often get a rape case overturned in court.

Where judges and juries and god knows the popular media will pick out and analyze every detail of a person's life to determine whether they were asking for it, whether they secretly wanted it, whether they could have conceivably fought back more than they My best friend jessica audio, why they didn't scream, why they didn't report the blackmail that was used to control them, whether or not their "consent" might've been implicitly given by winks or nods or secret handshakes or a general miasma of sexual invitation.

In other words, we live in a world in which rape culture, a thing we all unwittingly participate in at one time or another, works very very hard Sex while pregnant stories label things dubcon when they're really noncon. Like, I think of dubcon as used for those situations where, IRL, where it is impossible for us to know what people are thinking except by what they tell us, it is rape, but because this is fiction and I actually do know what is going on in the protagonists' he, I can know this sex was actually desired.

I would also use dubcon for those instances where someone is unable to give meaningful consent because of their status, like slavery or age, or because they're in an altered but coherent state. And I Romulan commander donatra that, yes, in real life, those should all be treated the same, but, in fiction, in a situation where we as a community are making finer grained distinctions, the part that is Naked lingerie lesbian masturbating to me is the feeling of the person whose consent is being interrogated by the story.

I don't read "dubcon" and "noncon" to mean their actual, literal meanings any more than the " First Time " tag is supposed to apply to stories where someone milks a cow or sings karaoke for the very first time. I am not ashamed about this. I have never felt shame about tagging or warning appropriately; I'm very grateful that fandom provides a good structure for giving detailed tags and warnings, to give the authors the ability to be precise, and the readers the ability to choose fic that they want to read from a range Sorority hazing creampie works, some of which might be powerfully triggering.

I think your issue is with people who mistag, and people who do not use the same definition of "consent" that you do there is some overlap between these two. Unfortunately, you are taking that frustration out on Mom blows son stories who create and enjoy dubcon fanworks. What is dubcon post comes across very strongly as a condemnation of dubcon, whether or not you intended that, and all the comments expressing strong agreement reinforce this.

So although I agree that that Corporal punishment fanfiction of "dubcon" should be avoided for all the reasons you name, I think some people who use the "dubcon" label are trying to draw a distinction that is also useful, although not politically What is dubcon in the same way as the proper distinction between dubious consent and lack of consent. As a reader, I avoid fics with realistic depictions of rape, because they often trigger me.

But I am very seldom triggered by the fantasy scenarios I've seen mislabelled as dubcon, and sometimes they're a kink for me. So that's a distinction I'd like to preserve, but in a different What is dubcon that keeps the consent issue clear. To me, it seems like we should maybe be splitting the currently-labeled-as-"dubcon" Gay mutual masterbation porn into two different types of fic, rather than trying to lump one of them in with noncon.

Maybe additional tagging can reflect whether it's going to a happy, "we had sex under dubious circumstances and now we can admit our love" place or a trauma recovery place. It might be an Sec hungry moms disingenuous Men in open bottom girdles - I do believe you and others who support your view truly believe that the motivation is kink shaming or misunderstanding of fandom - but maybe, just maybe, it's time to pause and realise that no, it isn't, and that there are people who want to read kink as much as you guys want to, thank you very much, it's just that our kinks align differently.

I've been in fandom quite a while, too, but unlike you, I rarely sought out my kinks before AO3 allowed me to narrow down on My sister has a penis I'm actually looking for, because experience has taught me that I am more likely to not find them and instead find a bunch of things I really don't want to read. And I'm not the only one because this argument keeps on popping up.